| Drake, former SBC officer, says he's praying for Obama to die (updated) |
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| By Bob Allen | ||
| Wednesday, June 03, 2009 | ||
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Wiley Drake, pastor of First Southern Baptist Church in Buena Park, Calif., and former running mate of American Independent Party presidential candidate Alan Keyes, said June 2 on Fox News Radio he didn't understand why people were upset with his comments quoted by Associated Baptist Press from a webcast of his daily radio talk show. "Imprecatory prayer is agreeing with God, and if people don't like that, they need to talk to God," Drake told syndicated talk-show host Alan Colmes. "God said it, I didn't. I was just agreeing with God." Asked if there are others for whom Drake is praying "imprecatory prayer," Drake hesitated before answering that there are several. "The usurper that is in the White House is one, B. Hussein Obama," he said. Later in the interview, Colmes returned to Drake's answer to make sure he heard him right. "Are you praying for his death?" Colmes asked. "Yes," Drake replied. "So you're praying for the death of the president of the United States?" "Yes." Colmes asked Drake if he was concerned that by saying that he might be placed on a Secret Service or FBI watch list, and if he believed it appropriate to talk or pray that way. "I think it's appropriate to pray the Word of God," Drake said. "I'm not saying anything. What I am doing is repeating what God is saying, and if that puts me on somebody's list, then I'll just have to be on their list." "You would like for the president of the United States to die?" Colmes asked once more. "If he does not turn to God and does not turn his life around, I am asking God to enforce imprecatory prayers that are throughout the Scripture that would cause him death, that's correct." Most of the half-hour interview on "The Alan Colmes Show" is premium programming available by paid subscription, but a five-minute clip appeared as a "top video" on the Fox News Radio website. Drake said he didn't pray for Tiller to be murdered -- only that God would take his life by some method -- but that he "absolutely" believed that God wanted the doctor dead. "I believe the whole Bible, Alan," he explained. "I don't just preach part of it. I don't just preach the soft, fuzzy, warm stuff where we're supposed to be nice to everybody. I preach the whole Bible." Part of the Bible, Drake claimed, is imprecatory prayer -- words of judgment in the Psalms prayed back to God -- a practice he said the church has lost. Drake fielded calls from a few listeners, including one identifying himself as a lifelong Southern Baptist who said he was saddened to hear a minister would pray for someone to die. "This whole concept that we're always to pray little, nice, soft, fluffy, prayers -- that we're not to pray imprecatory prayer -- has been something that just, in all honesty, that Southern Baptists have lost, and we need to regain imprecatory prayer," Drake said. "It is in the Bible, and we are proud to say as Southern Baptists that we believe the Book. You've got to believe the whole Book, brother, or you don't believe any of it." Asked if he thinks there might be other people praying imprecatory prayers for him that might be successful, Drake said, "Well, that's certainly possible, but that's in God's hands, not in mine." Asked if he claimed to know God's will, Drake replied: "In some cases I do. Not in all cases. I know this, that if I do die right now, I'll go to heaven when I die because I have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. That's why I'll go to heaven and not to hell. And the reason George Tiller went to hell when he died was not because he killed babies, as terrible as that was. If he went to hell, and I think he did -- that's God's judgment and not mine -- but if he did go to hell it's because he did not accept Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior." Drake said he did not believe Tiller's accused killer is a pro-life Christian. "I'm of the opinion -- and now everybody's going to say 'There goes Wiley down the conspiracy-theory road,' I'm of the opinion that somebody in the Obama camp had this guy killed." "Who benefits the most from this man killing a doctor?" Drake asked. "We certainly don't. Pro-life people certainly don't. It hurts us. It damages us, but Obama will indeed advance it. This will be one of those crises to take advantage of, and he's already done that." Drake said he had no evidence and admitted his opinion for now is "pure speculation." "Everybody said [Lee Harvey] Oswald was a lone gunman, et cetera, et cetera, too," he said. "But I think we're going to find there was somebody else involved." Drake said Tiller's murder would be a setback for pro-life Christians seeking to end abortion by legal and proper means. He said he also expects to see answers to other imprecatory prayers in the days ahead. "God says very clearly in his Word that we are to continue to pray and he will answer our prayers," Drake said. Sing Oldham, vice president for convention relations with the SBC Executive Committee, was unavailable for comment until late on May 4. He said that while Drake served one year as second vice president of the SBC, he is not now nor has ever been a spokesman for the convention. "Mr. Drake does not represent Southern Baptist actions, resolutions, or positions in his interpretation and application of 'imprecatory prayers,'" Oldham said. "Any comments made by Wiley Drake on this subject represent his personal views, not those of the Convention." Oldham said most Baptists view the imprecatory prayers found in the Psalms as private, heartfelt conversations between oppressed people and God, and reflect confidence that God will eventually vindicate the innocent. He said they generally close with a conscious decision not to bear malice and leave final judgment up to God. "I think it is fair to say that the vast majority of Southern Baptists reject any call to pray imprecatory prayers of death over any individual," he said. -30- This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it is senior writer for Associated Baptist Press. Previous ABP story:
Former SBC officer says Tiller murder answer to prayer (6/2)                 Comments (23)
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written by PartoftheHerd, June 04, 2009
Nutty, especially the part about Obama putting a hit out on Tiller. You think it would be best for him to avoid such divisive issues like abortion, not bring them up. The whole free speech debate ( see http://www.newsy.com/videos/free_speech_or_sparking_violence for reference ) is blown out of the water by this guy's comments. And if Tiller's murder was a 'set-back' what would happen if Obama were to die? Does he care more about the unborn babies or PR?
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written by tj282828, June 04, 2009
ABP is just doing what the rest of the media is doing. . . painting Bible believing Christians as dangerous. I believe the discussion has missed the bigger point. U.S. culture is slowly seeing us as dangerous! They currently laugh at us as being ridiculous, unworthy of respect. Soon they will see us as dangerous. Do you see where this is going? Mark my words, 20 years from now Bible believing Christians will be persecuted in the U.S.
All you need to do is read your history. Nero blamed Christians for burning Rome. Now it was not true, but slander never is. Christians were not killed because they followed Christ, they were killed because of the orgies they had during the love feast/the Lord's Supper. Early Christians were killed because they would not support the government by doing the simple patriotic duty of Emperor worship. How long will believers in our time be able to sing God bless America? Does God bless baby killing, divorce, gay marriage, fornication and other sins America celebrates. We are blind. We don't even understand that when the media attacks Christian extremist they are attacking us. Jeremiah's nation did not realize their time was up either. People never seem to see what is right in front of their face. . . pervasive sin does that to a culture. A video that will open your eyes. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7UyZYpeReY In fact, check out this story from today: Gun-loving pastor to his flock: Piece be with you at http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090604/ap_on_re_us/us_guns_in_church Do you all not see this? Christians are being painted as dangerous! ABP is going along because they believe that these kind of attacks on conservative Christians will not reflect on them. They are wrong, and need to read history. The youtube link is IMPORTANT! Drake must be deminted
written by Slick, June 05, 2009
No one in his right mind can call Wylie Drake a Bible-believing Christian. He is nothing more than an arrogant loudmouth. Indeed, it is drake and others like him who give the SBC a bad name.
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written by Ann, June 05, 2009
I'm puzzled by Christians - it seems to me that you all just pick which parts of the Bible you can use to support your hate - I love the Sermon on the Mount - have you read it? Christianity in the US repels me because I believe in compassion and helping others. Death threats, virulent hate for pretty much everyone - of course we see you all as dangerous. Because you are. Why isn't the FBI in Drake's face at this point in time?
Ann
written by Ken, June 05, 2009
"Death threats, virulent hate for pretty much everyone - of course we see you all as dangerous."
Would you mind showing us some evidence of these accusations? You take the actions of a few extremists, and you want to hold all Christians responsible. If anyone did that to African-Americans, you'd call them bigots - and rightly so. What does your attitude make you? ...
written by Ann, June 05, 2009
You know, you have a good point there. And I've worked at what I do see as my bigotry towards extremist Christians. Bigotry is assuming that a group has a certain set of characteristics without evidence about the particiular people you're dealing with. I've worked with wonderful Christian,s with deep selfless love doing good in the world - and Jews and atheists and Buddhists and Moslems and bahai and interfaith with the same love. And I've run into jerks too!
The formative example for me was the 16th St. Baptist Church bombing of 1963. It wasn't just that a sick nut blew up little girls going to Sunday School - it was that the people of the area who knew/suspected, kept his secret. How many Roman Catholic laypeople and priests knew about the horrible sexual predators, and either abetted or looked the other way? The pictures of the white folks, dressed up and partying at lynchings - where was the church's voice against those brutal torture murders? Wow
written by AsanDanny, June 05, 2009
And this IDIOT considers himself a "Man of God"? Who is he kidding! What a joke.
RT www.online-privacy.vze.com Ann
written by Ken, June 05, 2009
Thanks for the response. To be honest, I don't know why so many Christians remained silent on the issue of racism. I suspect they were like a lot of Christians today - more interested in doing what was "politically correct" than what was right, or maybe they were just too busy with their daily lives to get involved. Who knows? People can always find excuses for not doing the right thing. It's part of our sinful nature.
In fairness, many Christians did get involved. To deny this fact is to besmirch the memory of many civil rights leaders. As for me, I wasn't even born in 1963. I'm nearly forty-two years old, and I attended integrated schools all my life. Thanks to forced busing, I even attended predominantly black schools for a few years. I discovered that white people do not have a monopoly on racism. I was often bullied, teased, and harassed by black students. Does that give me the right to hate all African-Americans? I hardly think so. As for Wiley Drake, it's unfair for anyone to suggest that he represents the rank-and-file Southern Baptists. After all, he was a candidate for SBC president last year. He was one of six nominees for the office, and he came in dead last, garnering less than one percent of the vote. I wonder why ABP is still failing to report that bit of information? ...
written by lionlady, June 08, 2009
Drake is an excellent example of a Christian extremist. Yes, just as there are extremists in other cultures/religions, there are Christian extremists! And they are dangerous, just as any Muslim extremist is dangerous, because they have a complete and total belief that they are right and anyone who disagrees with them is wrong and must be: a. converted; or b. eliminated. Although I am not Baptist, I was previously a member of an evangelical church and although I consider myself wiser now, I have a good understanding of how evangelicals think. Anyone who claims that he knows the mind of God needs a serious reality check!
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written by Ann, June 10, 2009
Ken, thank you for helping me - and bless you. it did denigrate the people who stand up for their beliefs - thank you
Silence During Racism...
written by nltillman, June 11, 2009
It is inaccurate to say that Christians were silent during racism in the 20th century. They weren't. What they were doing was parading the "Bible-believers" of that day to, in fact, preach that the Bible was pro racist policies and supported the Jim Crow ways of the South.
Now, were all Christians doing this? No. Certainly not. But many of the same denominations that now quote scripture to exclude women and gays and call for "imprecatory prayer" are the same denominations that preached racial separation and antagonism in the south throughout the late 19th and early 20th centuries. And I think 30 years from now, we'll view people like Drakey-boy here with the same disgust and horror that we hold those ministers who preached slavery, racial discrimination, and hatred during the Jim Crow South years. What I can't understand is why some Christians seem perfectly fine with Christian sharia law? Finally, regarding the term "usurper"...I think you are nearly a decade too late in throwing that term out there, Drakey-poo. "Usurper" implies that Obama didn't win the election and got the presidency through having his daddy and his brother help pressure decision-makers into declaring him winner when he clearly wasn't. Wow...that sounds familiar... tj282828
written by judgetk, June 13, 2009
"ABP is just doing what the rest of the media is doing. . . painting Bible believing Christians as dangerous. .....when the media attacks Christian extremist they are attacking us..."
If radical extremist comments are made by a former high official of the SBC and Baptists don't condemn the comments they are condoning them. If the ABP doesn't repudiate people like Drake, then its silence says his statements are acceptable Christian Doctrine. The fact that he was a former vp of the SBC is the reason he was interviewed on Fox News. Not a Christian and Not Biblical
written by korr42, June 13, 2009
Drake CLAIMS to have a personal relationship to Christ. Find one example of Christ praying an imprecatory prayer and his comments might be something more than incoherence.
Drake CLAIMS to believe the WHOLE Bible, yet he is willfully ignoring that the supposedly "imprecatory" prayers in the Bible are actually heartfelt expressions of anquish from an oppressed people - NOT the God-ordained curses he makes them out to be. Drake's comments do not represent the teachings of Christ nor the teachings of the Bible. They represent Drake's views and his views alone. Consider his argument. Obama has Tiller killed in fulfillment of "God's will". Yet Obama himself must die because he is not in "God's will". His logic is incoherent and so are his views. tj282828
written by judgetk, June 13, 2009
In the late 1700s some people wanted democratic rule. Conservative elements of the church pointed to the Bible and said it proved that the king ruled by God's will.
In the mid 1800s some people wanted to end slavery. Conservative elements of the church pointed to the Bible and said it proved that God approved of slavery. In the early 1900s some people wanted to give women the vote. Conservative elements of the church pointed to the Bible and said it proved that God made women inferior to men. In the mid 1900s some people wanted to end segregation. Conservative elements of the church pointed to the Bible and said it proved God wanted to keep the races separate. When you look back at how your parents and grandparents dealt with these things, are you ashamed or proud? Elements
written by korr42, June 13, 2009
judgetk has correctly said "elements" of the church. As with any group of people, there are some who do well and others who are an embarassment to the rest. Please do not confuse the one for the other.
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written by wwschlosser, June 20, 2009
It's true that this crackpot is following the bible. Most people, whatever they say, really don't believe in the most violent and bloodthirsty parts of the bible. They pick and choose what they like and ignore the rest. This rightly brings into question the validity of the bible and christianity itself.
Drake Suffers from Mental Illness
written by OrangeCitizen, July 12, 2009
Drake has long gone off the deep end. He uses his pulpit for his own personal agendas. Such as "boycotting Disneyland" for employing gays.....and his latest escapade, trying to prove that the President is an "illegal alien". Drake seems to suffer from a mental illness named "narcissistic personality disorder". People who suffer from this illness have symptoms such as delusions of grandeur. He seems to believe that acting like an insane person will get him fame. But he is only making a spectacle of himself. I feel sorry for his family. He has become an embarrassment to the FSBC. Maybe at one time his ideas about helping the homeless were positive and helpful. But he has turned his pulpit into a circus. His church services are no longer religious, but more political. And some people have been thrown out of the church physically for dissenting out loud. If he'd use his position for the good of mankind, instead of for how own personal agendas, he night be doing a service to Orange County. But he isn't. He should go back to Arkansas where his racism and hick ways are accepted. Because most of the citizens in O.C. think he is crazy and needs to be institutionalized.
We shoud give him a chance
written by glasses, July 27, 2009
No one in his right mind can call Wylie Drake a Bible-believing Christian. He is nothing more than an arrogant loudmouth. Indeed, it is drake and others like him who give the SBC a bad name. Any way, we should give him a chance, maybe he will devote his left life to do good.
He should hide him self.
written by glasses, July 27, 2009
Maybe he can hide himself whereever he goes, wearing a glasses from www.cheapglasses123.com, no need pay more, some day when people really forget him, he will be a normal been again.
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written by mattstone, September 04, 2009
He wants the full Bible? How about we read the Old Testament in the light of the New Testament...
Romans 12:14 Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Wrong Approach
written by kc1253, September 04, 2009
Religion always distorts the truth. Hundreds, if not thousands, of "Christian" denominations read the same Bible, and still disagree. This should give us a clue. I believe the Bible is divinely inspired. But our approach to it, and how we read it wrongly, can lead to all sorts of wrong teaching. Religion has long used the Bible to falsely justify hatred, and then make the ridiculous statement, "I didn't say so. GOD SAID SO." No. He didn't. If Christians do end up on the list of "terrorists," it will be largely due to the fact we deserve it. Check out a better way to read the Bible at http://lifewalkblog.wordpress.com/2009/06/13/wrong-approach/
What happened to the Seven deadly sins?
written by Lisah Goodman, September 28, 2009
Thou shalt not KILL; (and all the others), will be found inside the bible as well.
I was led to this site through a series of events, by way of asking the question on a website called TOPIX: The site about "Jesus(God)" and discovered through a co-poster about this article. I am completely curious about this 'minister' guy--and wonder what the higher-church level leaders think about this interview their own selves? Perhaps the 'media' interviewer can do a follow up story, and go to this guy's churches higher leader: (Don't know where he gets his ordained minister status--or what the next higher level of supervisor is over him) but someone should interview them and show them what this guy said in this particular interview. AND obtain their thoughts. I'd like to know! I was baptized "BAPTIST" and have grave (serious) concerns at this time as to what I plan to do next! Seems as though I need to remove myself from my involvement with this Baptist religion!??? I shall see, as I plan to check more fully into this when time permits during the upcoming number of months here! ... written by ragedriven, November 20, 2009
When are we gonna take the brothas out of the WHITE house? Why do we have a black god hating liberal running our country? What happened to us? It is time for us to act!
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