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UPDATE: SBC messengers sever ties with Texas church over gay members Print E-mail
By Bob Allen and Marv Knox   
Tuesday, June 23, 2009

LOUISVILLE, Ky. (ABP) -- It took messengers to the Southern Baptist Convention annual meeting June 23 only 30 seconds to sever a 125-year relationship with a prominent Texas congregation because of the church’s perceived toleration of gay members.

Voting in the opening session of their annual meeting in Louisville, the messengers chose overwhelmingly to dismiss Broadway Baptist Church in Fort Worth. They did so on a recommendation the convention’s Executive Committee approved, without dissent, the day before.

The recommendation did not specifically mention homosexuality. But that issue has been the backdrop of controversy at the church since late 2007, when a dispute arose regarding whether to include pictures of same-sex couples alongside other families in the church’s membership directory.

The decision is the first time the SBC has ejected a church for violating a policy prohibiting affiliation with pro-gay churches despite the congregation's contention that it was not in violation of the rule.

"We are disappointed with the decision of the Southern Baptist Convention," said Kathy Madeja, the church's deacon chair, in a statement released shortly after the vote June 23. "Our mission at Broadway is and will continue to be consistent with the SBC’s stated enterprise of reaching the world for Christ. Like other SBC churches, membership at Broadway is by acceptance of Jesus as Savior and Lord and the experience of believer’s baptism by immersion.

"We do not believe Broadway has taken any action which would justify its being deemed not in friendly cooperation with the SBC. It is unfortunate that the Southern Baptist Convention decided otherwise and has severed its affiliation with Broadway Baptist Church."

At last year's SBC annual meeting in Indianapolis, Bill Sanderson, pastor of Hephzibah Baptist Church in Wendell, N.C., made a motion to declare Broadway not "in friendly cooperation" with the convention -- the SBC's constitutional language describing affiliation.

A work group of the Executive Committee met with church leaders Feb. 17 and asked for more information to clarify whether the church complies with an article in the SBC constitution banning churches that "act to affirm, approve or endorse homosexual behavior."

In late 2007 and early 2008, Broadway was embroiled in a controversy over the directory photos. The congregation eventually reached a compromise, agreeing not to family-by-family photos, but rather group and candid shots of all church members.

The controversy was highly publicized by bloggers as well as local and national media outlets. Sanderson made his motion for Broadway's ouster several months after the compromise vote.

The Executive Committee recommended "that the cooperative relationship between the Convention and church cease, and that the church's messengers not be seated, until such time as the church unambiguously demonstrates its friendly cooperation with the convention" under the constitution's article on membership.

August Boto, the Executive Committee's executive vice president and general counsel, sent an April 21 letter to Broadway officials. It said members of the committee had received information from people with firsthand knowledge of the church showing "rather pointedly that there is a clear divergence between the prevalent views of the Convention on the topic and those of your church."

Boto said the church needed to respond to a series of questions about the church's stance on homosexuality in order to "protect the reputation of the Convention."

Broadway's deacons responded in a May 21 letter saying specific questions in Boto's letter were "the same rumors that were circulated about Broadway during the last year" and that after February's meeting, "We should not now have to respond to innuendo and gossip."

Broadway did not send any representatives to the June 22 Executive Committee meeting and did not elect messengers to the convention meeting.

Church officials declined to discuss to speak on the record about specific allegations that SBC officials raised with them. But, in materials provided to the Executive Committee during its investigation, a Broadway staff member denied violating the SBC constitution.

“Broadway never has taken any church action to affirm, approve or endorse homosexual behavior,” Jorene Taylor Swift, the church's minister of congregational care, wrote to Boto.

“Broadway Baptist Church considers itself to be in friendly cooperation with the Southern Baptist Convention and has every intention of remaining so,” Swift wrote.

In fact, the church decided to publish its membership directory “with candid photographs of our members participating in many ministries and activities of Broadway,” she said. “One of the factors in choosing this style of directory was our belief that it does not make a statement to anyone to indicate that Broadway has in any way affirmed, approved or endorsed homosexual behavior.”

Swift’s letter acknowledged the church’s membership reflects “a variety of views” on homosexuality. “Like a number of other Southern Baptist churches, our congregation is trying to understand how to minister to those who are engaged in a homosexual lifestyle,” she added. “Our church has not adopted the position that the Bible condones this behavior.”

The Broadway deacons' May 21 to Boto addressed the “innuendo and gossip” regarding the church’s position on homosexuality.

“We have not denied that we, like most other churches, have a few gay members,” the deacons’ letter said. “We do not inquire about sexual orientation when people present themselves for membership. We do require their profession of faith in Jesus Christ as Lord followed by believer’s baptism.”

The deacons’ letter confirmed Swift’s statement that the church has not acted to “affirm, approve or endorse homosexual behavior.”

“Broadway Baptist Church desires to maintain its longstanding and historic affiliation with the SBC,” the letter said. “We believe our continued association with the Southern Baptist Convention will benefit both Broadway and the convention and further the kingdom of God.

Broadway was established in 1882. Today its main affiliation is with the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship, a moderate breakaway group that formed in 1991. But the congregation was long prominent in Southern Baptist life, and a few church members still teach at nearby Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary.

Southwestern requires its professors to belong to Southern Baptist churches. Those members will now have to choose between their job and their church.

The SBC changed its constitution in 1993 to exclude churches that are welcoming and affirming of gays. Previously the amendment was interpreted to apply only to churches that take some formal action, like ordaining or licensing a gay minister or conducting a ceremony to bless a same-sex union, but in 2006 an SBC-affiliated state convention with a similar policy said a church could be expelled for simply being perceived as affirming homosexual behavior.

-30-

Bob Allen is senior writer for Associated Baptist Press. Marv Knox is editor of the Texas Baptist Standard. ABP Managing Editor Robert Marus contributed to this story.

Previous related ABP stories:

SBC Executive Committee postpones vote on ouster of Broadway Baptist (2/17)

Fort Worth congregation subject of latest Internet-fueled struggle (2/21/2008)





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Comments (34)Add Comment
Church Discipline The Real Issue
written by Mark Osgatharp, June 23, 2009
Judging strictly on the basis of their own statements, it seems to me that Broadway Baptist is guilty, not of explicitly condoning sodomy, but of implicitly doing so by practicing open communion. On this basis, most Baptist churches in this country can be justly charged with condoning all manner of immorality because they have refused to exercise the church discipline commanded by Christ and symbolized in closed communion. Alas, alas! How is the fine gold become dim!
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written by ErnestPayne, June 24, 2009
Wow. A baptist church behaving like christians. Small wonder you want nothing to do with them.
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written by PastorDave, June 24, 2009
Ernest,

If you truly believe that condoning behavior that God condemns as "Christian" you truly have no understanding of the term.

Membership in a church is intended for those understood by the church to be people who are members of the body of Christ. This would entail repentance and faith, which are the requirements for salvation. Repentance means turning away from sin. Broadway has openly gay members who are not at all repentant about their sin and in fact are quite open and proud of it. They were allowed into membership because they happened to be very affluent members of society and the church placed the value of their checkbooks above the value of their souls.

The gospel of Christ is not a prostitute to be sold to the highest bidder. The SBC did the right thing in practicing a form of Church discipline in regards to this church, and hopefully it will bring the leadership into a reassessment of their worldliness and result in them addressing the issue of unregenerate church membership and ultimately result in restoration of fellowship with them. That is always the purpose of discipline, the hope of restoration.

Blessings,

Pastor Dave Johnson
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written by sam1148, June 24, 2009
If you truly believe that condoning behavior that God condemns as "Christian" you truly have no understanding of the term.

Wouldn't allowing members that are divorced (for reasons other than adultery) to be shown as a 'family' be the same, because if they divorced and remarried they're still married in the eyes of God to their original partner? Mat 19:9
9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

Oh, I'm sure you'll dance around that issue. Ignoring the simple scripture and language of Christ.
Church Discipline
written by Mark Osgatharp, June 24, 2009
Mr. Payne, If you think allowing impenitent sodomites into church membership is the right thing to do, you have no idea of what it means to practice Christianity. The Scriptures teach church discipline as surely as they teach faith in Jesus Christ and baptism on a profession of faith in Him. I find it ironic and hypocritical to the max that a church would allow sodomites to partake of the Lord's supper but not allow them to have their pictures in a church directory. So far as I know, the Lord doesn't even look at church directories. I know for a fact that He has killed people for taking His supper in an unworthy manner (see I Corinthians chapters 5 and 11). I also find it hypocritical to the max that Southern Baptists excluded this church for having impenitent sodomites in their membership when they know full well that there are thousands of Southern Baptist churches which have all manner of impenitent sinners as members and which openly advocate communing with anyone who walks through the church doors. This whole sordid incident shows just how far the Baptists have fallen from real Christianity.
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written by The Theologian, June 24, 2009
One of the major causes of all of this unfortunate hypocrisy is due to the lack of people who can actually determine what Paul wrote in contrast to the redactions and translations that occurred after his death in the New Testament. For example, it clearly states in Colossians 4:1and Ephisians 6:5-9 that “Slaves obey your masters like they are the Lord." Of course, we know now that slavery is wrong, and indeed Paul stated in his letters that no follower of Jesus should own any other follower of Jesus.
There will be polarization concerning this issue just as there was polarization concerning the issue of circumcision as Christianity was branching or continuing from Judaism. As Paul says that "we are free in Christ," we are also free to interpret that text, whatever good or bad occurs from that.

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written by MissingReed, June 24, 2009
"Broadway has openly gay members who are not at all repentant about their sin and in fact are quite open and proud of it." Well luckily they (the "sodomites") stand against the bigotry of others. You know of all my readings of the bible Jesus never hated anyone, was never spiteful towards anyone, only showed them love. To bad his terrestrial counter parts can't seem to do the same. You need to learn to accept and love rather then judge and oppress. Then maybe... maybe you actually will find salvation without the need for a savior.
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written by Arce, June 24, 2009
Homosexuality is not a sin any more than humanity is a sin. Preference is not a sin; only behavior, action, can be a sin, including, of course, thinking (plotting) about how one can satisfy sexual urges outside of marriage or any urge that is abusive of others.

Further, everyone who joins a church is a sinner, and “practices” some sin every day — that is the condition of humanity, saved or otherwise. If we exclude “practicing” sinners from the church, we exclude everyone. We do not endorse their sin by accepting them into the church.

Perhaps the SBC should begin doing a little church discipline over lust for power and for money. If it did, we would lose many of the mega churches whose pastors are taking over control and drawing huge compensation.

The issue that the Exec Committee had before it was that some in the convention PERCEIVED that Broadway was affirming homosexual behavior. If that is that case, watch out, because any motivated gossip can make that be true of any church they choose. Want Mohler’s church out of the SBC? All it takes is a little investigation to ID the gay people there and engage in some effective gossip!
Wow...
written by NoOneInParticular, June 24, 2009
Love they neighbor, indeed. Right, PastorDave? Oh, and Dave? Your attempted justification for these bassackwards beliefs is almost as disgusting as your level of bigotry.
sinners in the church???
written by Slick, June 24, 2009
Come on Mark, tell us how you really feel! I agree with you 200% Fundamentalist ultra-radical extremists have a short list of big sins and probably keep another list of behaviors that are sin but not really so bad in their eyes. Yes, they are hypocrites. The SBC is little more that a voluntary association. Being associated with the SBC is no big deal. In fact, we all recall the churches that dropped the word Baptist in part because of the negative image of the SBC.

I served on staff in an SBC church and following a cross-country relocation by my full-time employer, I am still in a SBC-affiliated church. Neither of these churches are engaged in Baptist politics and both do what churches ought to be doing—worshipping, ministering, teaching, fellowshipping, and trying to help all the membership build that relationship with the Lord. Both churches have sinners. Both have those who continue to sin. But neither is picking out one or two sins as their main points of notoriety.

There are times I wish more SBC-affiliated churches would leave and become independent. Each could continue to hold to the BFM, to preach the Bible, to reach the lost, to minister to the flock. I’m not a particular fan or supporter of the CBF but I do know why many churches affiliate with it and it has nothing to do with wanting to be liberal. It has to do with liberty and freedom of conscience in understanding, interpreting, and teaching the Bible.

There is an old joke about a room in heaven filled only with Southern Baptists who really believe they are the only ones there. The joke is funny but it has a strong element of truth.
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written by Mitchelka, June 24, 2009
Ah, NoOneInParticular, don't be harsh with Pastor Dave, he's just doing his job. Just because he's in an industry that promotes bigotry and hate speech doesn't mean he isn't an OK guy when not at work. Lot's of people work at jobs they don't thoroughly believe in! I bet he doesn't *really* believe any of that crap he's spewing - just look at all those bible-thumping politicians! They certainly don't believe a word of it! It's just another way of shaving the rubes out of a dollar.
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written by saintrage, June 24, 2009
The incredible shrinking religion.
weepin
written by rachaelrobie, June 24, 2009
yet another thing to divide and distract. people- lets remember who the enemy is and resist tearing each other to pieces. I'm thankful for those who God calls to stand up-that is His Love...I'm thankful for those who are called to serve quietly....that is His Love as well. All men and women will be judged by God, so stop trying to control each other....for every moment you spend doing this, are moments lost in worship, prayer, and service to our Lord. He is worthy of all of these moments and will be faithful to show us how to act in such situations. Pastors and leaders have a difficult job. Satan attacks them in a huge way. I say until you spend at least an hour a day praying for your church and your pastor, you have no authority to be critical. God will be faithful to your prayers. Only His presence changes things. Our problem? Guilt over our inaction. Guilt over our actions. Anger over others actions. Anger over others inactions.
And Jesus says, "Come to me all who are weary and burdened and I will give you rest. My burden is easy and yoke is light." If we truly prostrate ourselves in this way, wow-
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written by ErnestPayne, June 24, 2009
roflol Mark. You are one sad sorry excuse for a christian. God fordbid one of your children is born homosexual.
Church Discipline
written by Mark Osgatharp, June 24, 2009
Most of you folks are so steeped in your ungodly modernistic psuedo-Baptist heresy that you can't see the noon day light. Here is what the Bible actually says about church membership and church discipline. In spite of all your ungodly ranting it will still be there on judgment day:

"It is reported commonly that there is fornication among you, and such fornication as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife. And ye are puffed up, and have not rather mourned, that he that hath done this deed might be taken away from among you.

For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, to deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world. But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."
dear mark
written by rachaelrobie, June 24, 2009
this scripture is absolutely right, but your presentation is one that distracts from scripture. scripture as a whole is meant to restore us unto God (example- God's redemptive plan through Christ)- pretty much the whole bible....the way you have presented your argument today disappoints me.
all scripture dealing with discipline of God's people is meant to restore and build up...it is hope...
please be careful, lest your passionate zeal cause you to sin. truth without love is like a clangy, annoying, gong! Jesus speaks so much about this and it should not be overlooked!
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written by Saddened, June 25, 2009
When I was much younger, I came to realize that I was homosexual. I was uncomfortable with being different in this respect, because to disclose the trait was to be scorned. So, I kept quiet about it and hoped it would go away as I grew older.

At that time, I read as much as I could about homosexuality. I observed the extremely views of the various Christian sects, ranging from the relatively mild disdain of the Catholics to the fiercely harsh views of the Baptists. But it was only a matter of degree; it was clear to me that all of the Christians would hate me.

Finally, by the time I was in my late teens, I realized that my homosexuality wasn't just a phase. I had to make a choice. At that point, I turned my back on you and your false god. I've never looked back, except from time to time when I run across this or that example of your blind hatred.

If I'm destined for hell, Baptists, I'm sure I'll see you there!
WHAT WOULD JESUS DO?
written by Milkman4God, June 25, 2009
Laugh out loud, cry with pitty and scorn the pious. I was saved years ago, in Brother Jim Henry's office. A greater man of God I have never seen. But I have met many who rise to his level of servanthood. I attended Baptist churches always believing "We were right". Until I met this great little Evangelical Prebyterian girl. I was invited to help form a Descipleship group. I was confident I could help these little wayward believers see the real light. Sound familiar. It is what plagues churches today, not just SBC churches.

I worked for a company that helped fund and set up conferences for pastors wives. What an eye opening experience. I got to see some of the greatest Christian leaders at work and play. Many disappointments came from seeing them off guard, not in the spotlight. One of the exhibitors I signed up was David Decker, From Deer Ridge Ministries. The whole premise of the conference was that 2000 pastors leave the ministry every year... for every reason. David Decker was a product of one of those pressures, not put on by himself, but by a denomination that had no compassion for a man of God that couldn't control what someone else did. David and his wife Louise were some of the finest people I had ever met. If you want to talk to real people doing real service contact David at deerridgeministries.org. He is NOT Baptist. He is Christian.

DO any of you remember an Imperials song entitled "Old Buddah"? Find it and play it. I am glad that I was saved in a Baptist church, taught sound biblical principles. What troubled me was the legalistic attitude so many had. Yet those same people would do some pretty unusual things. I love Peter, because I can identify with him the closest. Sure Jesus, I'll do anything for you... but don't ask me to do something that will make me uncomfortable. I attend a church called Real Life Christian, real people... not perfect. The church does not care what you look like or what your background is/was...all are welcome. There is a program called Celebrate Recovery. You figure it out.

It is one thing to have uncompromising beliefs... it is another to shut out people because they believe differently. Jesus was asked why he associated with publicans and sinners. I never go to the Doctor unless I am ill or to avoid getting ill. If I were spiritually ill, what better place to be than near Jesus. How do the ill find Jesus? Through us, THE CHURCH. My congratulations go out to a church that opens it's hearts to the sinner. One of the first things I learned at FBC/Orlando was "Love the sinner, hate the sin".

By the way... Jesus went to the cross for ALL. Does he have to go again so that He can live up to our expectations? Legalists sent him there with wispers and dissention, lies and hatred. Ministry begins right where you are... I never felt the need to go to Dallas to earn my right to be a minister. My building isn't my church. To the SBC, pray for wisdom in leading you.
2 Questions
written by dmspreach, June 25, 2009
First, why hasn't anyone tried to answer sam1148's question?

Second, which of ANY of the above comments do you think Jesus would have penned?

Anyone?
2 answers
written by mil, June 25, 2009
1. Jesus did not condemn homosexuality, so therefore God does not condemn homosexuality. Jesus condemned things like hypocrisy.

2.
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written by rachaelrobie, June 25, 2009
There are many more scriptures from Christ on love and hypocrisy then any particular kind of sin.....so lets take our example from Him. So many are missing it.
WHAT WOULD THE FATHER DO?
written by Milkman4God, June 25, 2009
From the beginning man was allowed to choose. Choices are all judged by God's standard. Is it any wonder that we can rationalize, justify anything we can imagine. To answer the above, THE FATHER was explicitly clear about the price of an immoral life style. One day each will stand before the Creator... you can argue your point there... hoping that HE is more lenient than the last time at Sodom and Gomorah. Jesus was the ONLY BLOOD capable of covering the depth of sin man created/creates. Argue that point all you want... THE BIBLE tells me so. The comparison of divorce... Jesus pointed out that it was not infidelity, BUT hardness of heart that alows the divorce to exist.

Have fun.... Jesus loves you.
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written by mil, June 25, 2009
All couples want to get married for the same reasons—they love each other, they want to make a public commitment, and they want to start a family together. Recognition of the right to marriage for all who hold these virtuous desires is practical and essential. Let us honor those who wish to make this commitment with our blessings rather than our judgments. It is a couple’s love and commitment to one another, not their sexuality, that promotes the sanctity of marriage. That is what makes marriage different from fornication, which is committed by both gays and straights.
THINK AGAIN
written by Milkman4God, June 26, 2009
God created man in "OUR IMAGE". He later said that it was not good for man to be alone. So HE made a "helpmeet". HE defined that relationship and the necessity for that specific unit. Call it what you want, GOD HIMSELF defined it. He joined Adam and Eve as a unit for the purpose of filling the earth with HIS work. I cannot disagree more with the above representation of marriage as defined by one comment. God gave us 10 Commandments... man invented the Library of Congress to hold all the "improvements" that we could to the original 10 God thought essential. The world is no different today than the first day Adam sinned... we're still making choices...and like then.. still not wanting to be held accountable for them. Homosexuality has never been the issue, just like abortion or muder or any sin. Three Greek words define love. Agape. Phileo and Eros... How we view those three and to what relationship they apply determines how God will judge us.

To quote Dr. Brown... "You think about that".
thinking about milkman's response
written by mil, June 26, 2009
Why do you "completely disagree" when I say that marriage is about love, commitment, and family? That seems like a pretty reasonable way for a Christian to approach marriage.

If you are saying that it is impossible for homosexual love to be of the same quality as heterosexual love based on your reading of the Bible, then I accept your argument. Otherwise, it just seems like you are making a judgment about someone else that you are in no way able to make. I simply do not feel like you or I are in a position to say that the love two people feel for one another is blasphemous. Where does Jesus ever condemn love? He doesn't. I agree with you that the story about Adam and Eve being being created for one another clearly shows that we are not meant to be alone. I just have never understood why so many Christians want to exclude homosexuals from the Church. I am a young man with an open mind. With humility, I am asking you to explain to me more clearly why we should ever deny love, even if it is between people of the same sex.

second thoughts
written by mil, June 26, 2009
Milkman,

I read your most recent post again. After reflecting a while, I believe what you were saying is that homosexuality is a sin because it perverts love by "combining" the natural philial love of brotherhood with the natural erotic love of a husband and wife. Can't think of a better way to express that idea, but is that what you were getting at?

What I am trying to say, rather ungracefully, is that as long as someone has Christian love--"agape"--then that person's erotic and philial relationships will be natural and pleasing to God, regardless of our judgments upon them. Or at the very least, that judgment should be left to God Himself, of whose glory we all fall short.
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written by rep, June 26, 2009
mil,

With all due respect, I think what you aren't understanding about the issue of homosexuality is that God created humans male and female. God made it that way. Even if you don't want to put it in religious language, humans exist as a species in two sexes, male and female. That is how the species reproduces. So you can say whatever you want about homosexual marriage, but in reality homosexuality is clearly ontologically different than heterosexuality. Whether you look at it religiously or biologically, there is a difference. The Church teaches that this difference reflects the order of God's creation, which is that a man should be joined with a woman, not a man with a man, not a woman with a woman. If you want to make a political statement about the right to this or that, then be my guest, but even if homosexuals have the right to marry, that doesn't mean it would be the same thing as the union of a man and a woman. Should churches ban homosexuals from entering to worship God? Of course not. But neither should the Church encourage something that it knows "falls short of the glory of God."
compliments
written by dmspreach, June 27, 2009
compliments, folks. the tone is improving in the dialogue here. thanks. i think that will honor God. and mil, thanks for attempting an answer to my two questions earlier.
THE MIND OF GOD
written by Milkman4God, June 27, 2009
It is impossible to know the mind of God... BUT HE left us a good picture of what HE intended for us in HIS WORD... Meaning Jesus and the Scriptures. I do not disagree that marriage doesn't include love, affection, committment, etc... But what is also included is the example Jesus left for us. There is a Bride Groom AND a Bride.

I fully understand that man will always have a choice, he will do things that are against God's purpose for man. PAul wrote that he did things he shouldn't do and didn't do things he should. He went on to confess that it is better that a desciple should not marry and be like he was...BUT, it was better to marry than to burn with desire.

We also know that there will be times when men will look and dress like women and women like men. It is also pointed out that men will do what is unnatural. It is spoken of as a negative to God's norm. Is it a statement of style or life style? The right of a person to choose a lover is each one's choice. What is God's norm? When you look at the statements that refer to Jesus and His love for Peter, or any other of His disciples or friends... it is not eros, nor is it agape. We choose to interpret what we see and read... God made everything and he said everything was good. Does that lead us to believe that no matter what we do with what God made that it is still good? My dad was a mechanic. He cringed when he saw me using a screw driver for a chisel or pry bar. I saw the tool as an end result... Dad saw it as a tool for specific applications. When God says that he made male and female there was a plan.

When you look at the possibility of relationships, what is the purpose? What is God's perspective? Willful misconduct has a consequence. I have a friend that I love dearly. He fills a place that my wife cannot. That is the love I believe Paul had for Timothy, Jesus for Peter or Lazarus or Mary or Joseph. Never does he express an eros love for anyone. That is unless you subscribe to the notions of the "Last Temptations of Christ".

I have had gay friends. My love for them was no different than any other friend. The friendships had a purpose, a commitment, a caring for the welfare of one another. I would come to their defense if needed. It was always understood that respect for one another mattered. Nothing else was needed to make the relationship complete.

Christians are a funny lot... usually having enough Bible knowledge to be dangerous. It is only when you come to realize WHOSE YOU ARE, that you can discover WHO YOU ARE. Instead of What Would Jesus Do? How about What Would Jesus Want Me To Be? I can't answer that for you... ONLY for myself. You have to ask yourself that question.

The action of the SBC with the church is typical. There is always someone ready to tell you how you should act. Then they themselves should look in the mirror. Look at the number of very high profile Preachers who have fallen. I mentioned that I saw some very high profile men, and women, off guard a few years ago. My respect for them hit a low. There is nothing they can tell me that I would care to listen to. I mentioned David Decker before. I wish that I had time to tell his story. You should contact him and hear it from him. But there were some great preachers of small churches, who made sacrifices to get their wives to that conference. They inpressed me with their grace and kindness. Those men saw themselves as being a support to their helpmeet.

Make no mistake... I disapprove of the gay lifestyle. It is unnatural as described by God. What am I to do? Just love the sinner. Jesus showed his contempt for defiling God's house, for perverting God's word. But even more important is His example... He had to follow His Father's will. Be blameless, teach, sacrifice and rise.
Being Baptist
written by Chris Boisvert, June 29, 2009
I have worshipped a couple times at Broadway Baptist in Ft Worth. It is a church made up of good people and a congregation that has a broad ministry. It is sad when Christian's cannot set a positive example for the world by focusing on the many points of faith and mission that are shared, rather than dividing over what is perceived as sinful by some and not so by others.

Some in the Baptist family seem to have forgotten that historically Baptist congregations are autonomous and that Baptists are not supposed to have to subscribe to a set creeds. Baptists are supposed to believe in freedom of conscious, soul liberty, individual interpretation of scripture with the guidance of the Holy Spirit. But often today, Baptist bodies of faith have chosen to give up our heritage and follow a hierarchical structure that often vest power in the hands of a few and marginalize and seek to silence the voices that are different.

I find the language of "friendly cooperation" to be humorous at best. It is more like forced obedience. The fact is that there are lesbian and gay people in almost all bodies of faith. They are sometimes out, often not. They are in places of leadership and in congregations and in the pews. It is past time churches begin to embrace these people of faith, rather than to turn them out onto the streets or to ignore that they are there.

It is wrong when Bible has been used by one group or another to marginalize others and empower themselves. The Bible has been used to justify slavery and to silence the voices of women. The literal interpretation of scripture is never truly that. Over the centuries context has been applied and so has our understanding. No one interprets all biblical passages literally. If you find such a person, I would like to meet him or her.

Peace,
Chris Boisvert
Director of Community Outreach
Association of Welcoming & Affirming Baptists
Dear Saddened
written by dewhite0103, June 30, 2009
Saddened, I am so sorry for the way that you have been treated, and am distraught that the behavior of angry baptists has turned you away from the God that I believe loves you regardless. I hope that you can forgive "us" for our behavior, and if not, at least know that not everyone under the label of "Baptist" acts and speaks the same way. If you want to talk it out with someone who is not mad and still discovering, I'd love to hear from you.
...
written by mil, June 30, 2009
Milkman,


Although you disapprove of homosexuality, shouldn't Christians, following Paul's advice, still want their fellow Christians to channel their innate sexual desires into marriage. My point depends upon the belief that homosexual desire is not an explicit choice in the same way that lying or stealing or killing is. So shouldn't our judgment and advice as Christians be to decide in what way it is best to direct that desire, even though it is not the norm. If you believe that someone is essentially born gay or straight, as I do, then it is hard to make the case that are sinners for that preference alone. Maybe you don't think sexual preference is innate. I just don't think someone is actively sinning against God just because they are attracted to members of the same sex. What someone does with that desire is of course another matter entirely. I would like to know what you think.
typo
written by mil, June 30, 2009
should have said, "it is hard to make the case that they are sinners for that preference alone"

I guess what I find so troubling is the idea that homosexuality is something that needs to be cured, as opposed to heterosexuality, which merely needs to be channeled appropriately.
SEMANTICS OR SIN?
written by Milkman4God, July 01, 2009
From the day that Adam and Eve were given the command to NOT eat of the fruit of the tree... man has had a choice. God established a guideline for the first couple. I believe that Adam and Eve is THE example of a relationship of marriage as God created the union. They were born with a curiosity... BUT who was it that refuted what God had commanded? It is no different today than then. Regardless of the condition at birth... Adam and Eve were given one thing they could NOT do. They did it anyway. The consequences is history, and here we are today. There is a great battle waging... not of this earth, but of a spiritual nature. As Christians we are to defend the truth of the Gospel. John tells us that there is a light that is coming into all the world. He came. He could not have His light extinguished... the enemy tried.. on several occaisions.

The contention that CHristians should channel their love (eros) into a marriage is not a false statement, until you place the context of the term love in an unatural relationship, which I think I mentioned earlier. Is it right, necessary, legal, moral, etc... for every person to have the same life's plan? I believe not. To all are given different gifts. God has a plan for each of us. Not just one plan for all. I cannot agree that the gay partners should believe that their relationship is incomplete unless they can participate in eros. Jesus built the closest relationships a man (which he was for a time) could have with the people mentioned in the Bible. Isn't it interesting to note that little is mentioned of Joseph. More is about Peter, Paul, Stephen. These were the pillars of the church. Joseph had little to do with that. He did teach Jesus a trade. Read the "Archko Volume, Letters From The Sanhedron" It is a very interesting look at some of the key figures of the Bible. Look at how Joseph and Mary are described. They were less important to mention than others, obviously.

I would also like to ask you a question. Did God make you as you are? If so, for what purpose? If you could change anything about yourself, what would it be? If you believe that God knitted you in your mother's womb, then there was no mistake. You are what God intended. The challenges you encounter are the testing of your faith. Faith is where the answers lie. Why do so many Pastors cheat on their wives, steal from the congregations, priests commit unspeakable crimes against children, etc? Those were all choices... men sworn to service and a higher calling. How much more teachers/elders are going to be held accountable.

So... we can define anything in terms of the semantics of the meaning we "feel"... there are no Cardinal or Venial sins. Sin is what it is.

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