New Voice Media | Associated Baptist Press
     
 
Saturday, July 31, 2010
Home arrow News arrow Pastor urges respect for women in ministry
 
Pastor urges respect for women in ministry Print E-mail
By Ken Camp   
Tuesday, August 11, 2009

NORMAN, Okla. (ABP) -- A Southern Baptist pastor from Oklahoma compared the way his fellow conservatives treat women in ministry to treatment of African Americans by previous generations.

"History will one day look back on how we Baptists in the 21st century treated our women who were called by God to minister," Wade Burleson told the Midwest regional gathering of the New Baptist Covenant.

Burleson, pastor of Emmanuel Baptist Church in Enid, Okla., framed his message to the closing session of the multiethnic meeting as both a personal confession and a public challenge.

"It is my prayer that conservative, Bible-believing men will not make the same mistake our Southern Baptist forefathers made when they remained quiet two centuries ago as another minority experienced abuse," he said.

Oklahoma pastor Wade Burleson addresses New Baptist Covenant audience. (Photo by Joey Pyle)
Burleson is a former trustee of the International Mission Board of the Southern Baptist Convention who resigned the position after controversy over his decision to discuss his dissent to majority decisions on a blog. Anthony Jordan, executive director of the SBC-affiliated Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma, turned down an invitation to participate in the event. 

"I now believe in my heart that Jesus is more concerned with how we Baptists treat each other than he is what we Baptists teach each other," Burleson said. "The people loved by Christ -- particularly those who differ with me -- are to be far more precious to me than any finer point of theology believed by me."

Burleson noted a recent address by California Baptist pastor Rick Warren to the Islamic Society of North America where Warren challenged Muslims and Christians to respect the dignity of every person by valuing, not just tolerating, people; restore civility to civilization; and protect freedom of speech and freedom of religion for all people.

Burleson said before Baptist Christians can begin to respond to Muslims in that way, they need to learn to treat their own Baptist brothers -- and especially sisters -- with that kind of respect.

"In other words, until I can treat all my Baptist friends with dignity, value them as people and respect their views -- particularly and especially those Baptists who disagree with me -- it will be impossible for me to treat Muslims in the same manner," he said.

"Likewise, until my liberal or moderate Baptist friends experience Christ's love in their hearts for me, a theologically conservative Baptist, and until they value my personhood, respect my views and work with me toward a greater common good, it will be impossible for them to do the same for Muslims," he said.

"The greatest barometer for how well we Baptists understand the importance of agape love -- which the Scriptures call the distinguishing mark of followers of Jesus Christ -- is our treatment of each other," Burleson said.

In particular, Burleson said Baptists who are serious about obeying Christ's command to love one another must rise to defend women in ministry when other Baptists mistreat them.

"These women profess a call from God, show real evidence of being set apart by Christ and have experienced the empowerment of the Holy Spirit to proclaim Jesus Christ and him crucified to the world, yet many of them are being subjected to abuse -- and that by Baptists," Burleson said.

"When our Baptist women in ministry experience such personal mistreatment, ridicule or harm, we are commanded by Christ our Lord to bind up their wounds," he said. "And sometimes we must even take the weapon of abuse out of the hands of the perpetrators of those wounds."

He pointed to specific instances of what he considered harsh and unjust treatment of women in ministry -- Sheri Klouda being dismissed as a professor at Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary; Julie Pennington-Russell facing protestors when she accepted the pastorate of Calvary Baptist Church in Waco, Texas; and a female seminary student whose preaching professor allowed all male students to leave the classroom when she spoke so they would not be subjected to hearing a woman deliver a message from the Bible.

Burleson, a past president of the Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma, noted a particular turning point in his own attitude toward the treatment of women. The incident occurred when he was moderating a state convention business session and a woman was elected second vice president.

"I will never forget the sight from the platform as several men throughout the auditorium stood and literally turned their backs to the platform as they voted against the first woman to be elected to general office within the Baptist General Convention of Oklahoma," he recalled.

"That moment was an awakening for me," Burleson said. "I realized that any cherished principle that would ever cause a Christian to be uncivil, unkind or unloving toward a sister in Christ is a principle that should be thrown out for the sake of obedience to the command of Christ to love one another."

Not all Baptists will agree on the interpretation of Scriptures regarding the role of women in church leadership, but there is "no wiggle room" when it comes to Christ's command to love, he said.

"You may not like the fact that women are now being called by God to preach, or called by God to do missions, or called by God to teach," Burleson said. "You may even consider it a violation of your principles for a woman to teach a man, or preach Christ to a man, or baptize a man, or lead a man, but there is one thing you and I cannot -- we must not -- forget."

"You and I are called to love each other and every sister in Christ who feels called to ministry," he said. "We are called to affirm the dignity of every Christian woman called to minister. We are commanded to treat them with respect and civility."

"We are also called to love, respect and affirm the autonomy of local Baptist congregations and denominations that utilize these gifted women in ministry as they see fit," he said. "To censor them, reject them, abuse them or condemn their character is a sin of the first order."

-30-

This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it  is managing editor of the Baptist Standard. Bob Allen contributed to this story.

 





Reddit!Del.icio.us!Google!Live!Facebook!Slashdot!Technorati!StumbleUpon!Spurl!Newsvine!Blinklist!Furl!Fark!Yahoo!Ma.gnolia!Free social bookmarking plugins and extensions for Joomla! websites!
Comments (12)Add Comment
...
written by tj282828, August 11, 2009
I simply cannot find wiggle room in scripture supporting women pastors/elders. Paul is very clear in 1 Timothy 2:11-12:

11A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. 12I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.

Also, qualifications for elders/pastors says he must be "one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence." 1 Timothy 3:4 (notice the word "his" . . . a man)

Note that the Bible says a man is to rule his house, and a wife is to submit to her husband.

Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. Ephesians 5:22


At the end of the day the Bible is crystal clear. . . only men are to be pastors.
the indefinite becomes male
written by Arce, August 11, 2009
TJ
As in many other languages, when there is an indefinite and it applies to a person, the male pronoun is always used. Two sisters and one brother together are referred to as three brothers in most languages, because the indefinite and the plural default to the male form. That is not evidence of a limitation in the language.

BTW, Paul did not say that his command was from God. He said "I (Paul) permit . . .." In a patriarchal society, that made sense. However, we do know that there were female apostles, prophets (preachers), deacons, and elders in the first century, and that these were referred to by Paul as such.

BTW, if you get out of the idea that the pastor has authority in the church, other than the influence of the pulpit, then the authority is in the congregation or laity, and not in the person of the pastor. All Christians are to be priests and proclaim (preach) the message of Christ. Patriarchy is a result of the fall and is not of the redeemed, even if the redemption will not be fully completed until the return of Christ.
Once again....
written by Slick, August 11, 2009
Arce says it exactly right and tj proves how limited and narrow his thinking is. Thanks, Arce, for an informed and well stated post.
...
written by tj282828, August 11, 2009
Acre, I don't think its that simple.

Contrary to what you said, Hebrews 13:17 says pastors are to be obeyed:

"Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give account. Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you."

You also did not address the inherent contradiction of a woman pastor, who would rule her church. . . which would include her family. . . so her husband would have to submit to her contrary to Ephesians 5:22.

Greek is not near as sloppy as you argue. Under your understanding of gender descriptive words, he and she means nothing. Your argument is "he" does not mean "he." The only reason, when looking at all the evidence in the Timothy passages, for "he" not to mean "he" is you don't like that interpretation.

Paul gave a command with the authority of an Apostle. The writings of true Apostles are still authoritative for the church. . . which is why this is in the Bible. As the Hebrews passage proves, the early church obeyed its leadership. . . why do you advocate disobedience?

Please give examples of female preachers/elders. As for Junia and women apostles please read http://www.helium.com/items/1251676-were-there-women-apostles-in-the-early-church . As you will see, the evidence is inconclusive from Romans 16:7.

Women deacons follows the same logic. See http://www.gotquestions.org/women-deacons.html

I agree that all believers, both male and female, are to give the gospel. But the ordained offices of pastor/elder are for men. I also believe Deacons are men because how can a woman be "of one wife"? 1 Timothy 3:12

Throughout all of church history the majority of saints agree with my position. Not until the momentous 60s did your view even attain minority status. The fruit of feminism upon the family is obvious, and Christ says you shall know them by their fruit. Feminist theology is not about learning from God's word, but rather imposing radical secular behaviors upon the Bible. This does violence to the text.

Slick,

Since when is trying to follow the Bible narrow? Your comments say more about you than it does about me.


...
written by tj282828, August 11, 2009
Oh, preachers are not prophets. Prophets speak the very words of God. Deu. 18:18 Nu. 23:16 etc.

So when a prophet is speaking it is actually God's words coming out. So a woman prophetess is not teaching anyone, but God is speaking through her. A preacher is a teacher. Preachers make/speak mistakes, while true prophets never do. Prophets who make mistakes don't live very long to tell about it. ;-)
do you want women entering the competitive fray?
written by Xenophon, August 11, 2009
Middle-aged women sitting in church watching and analyzing the pastor and his wife and children serve to sustain the culture and traditional standards, but they can also be socially and psychologically oppressive. Imagine if other women entered the competitive fray to gain official power and recognition in the church hierarchy. That would lead to the kind of increased social fragmentation and neglect of personal relationships that we are seeing today as women leave the home to find wealth, status, and recognition in roles that demand fierce competition and enormous demands of concentration on matters outside of the home. The traditional women left behind would become even more critical and less cooperative within the church.

Response to women in positions of authority also have an effect on men. As more women enter college and professional schools, fewer men choose that route for advancement. Increasing numbers of men are finding alternative paths to gain wealth and social standing as women take over the traditional avenues to personal gain. We can also see that increasing numbers of men do not want to marry since they must then compete against or accommodate the careers of their prospective wives. The inverse reaction is that women who marry men who do not have significantly higher incomes and higher status are much more likely to be unhappy in marriage and divorce their husbands. Egalitarian marriages have proven to be less stable than modified traditional ones. See the University of Virginia study by sociologists W. Bradford Wilcox and Steven L. Nock on this issue.

Gender equality in the church or without as with all other forms of equality of result and opportunity does not work.
...
written by pjerwin, August 11, 2009
Here's the deal: I am convinced that the Bible is clear about women and ministry (I won't say "women in ministry" because I believe all men and all women who are believers must and will be "in ministry"). Others believe contrary to what I believe, but they are equally convinced of their position. Given that we are mandated in Scripture to faithfully practice, teach, and keep the doctrines of the faith, each of us will maintain and teach his or her position. The bottom line is churches will continue to ordain women to the ministry whether or not God has ordained them to do so. That's the way it is. The question is, "What shall we do about it?"

I’ve had fairly positive and very negative experiences with ordained women Pastors. My conviction remains the same. I don’t believe it’s the biblical model. I will not support their call or ordination, but I will not maltreat them.

In the community where I serve as Pastor, one of the churches received a woman Pastor. I was determined to ensure that she feel welcome in the community and included in every aspect of the Ministerial Fellowship. All of the other ministers, regardless of their personal or ecclesial convictions, determined to do the same. She was treated as just another Pastor, nothing more, nothing less. Because of the relationship between our particular congregations, she, another Pastor (a man), and I decided to meet weekly for prayer, Bible study, and mutual edification. We grew very close over the short time she was here. She died in May. The loss is still palpable. I miss her so much. She was a competent minister and a wonderful person, but my conviction remains the same.

Arce wrote:
BTW, if you get out of the idea that the pastor has authority in the church, other than the influence of the pulpit, then the authority is in the congregation or laity, and not in the person of the pastor. All Christians are to be priests and proclaim (preach) the message of Christ. Patriarchy is a result of the fall and is not of the redeemed, even if the redemption will not be fully completed until the return of Christ.
Patriarchy, according to Scripture, is part of creation. Failure to exercise it was part of the reason for the fall resulting in an emphasis on it in the curse after the fall. Just as there is order in the Godhead, there is order in the Church, and Paul clearly explains that. The redeemed will willingly submit to God's economy in the Church just as the Son willingly submits to the Father in the Trinity. Otherwise is nothing less than a spirit of rebellion, a capitulation to the wisdom of men and conformity to society, rather than an acceptance of God's wisdom and transformation of thinking.
PJ, Arce, Xen
written by Slick, August 12, 2009
Gentlemen, thanks to all three of you all for your well expressed positions. Christians have really few doctrinial things today on which they have total agreement. As I read The Acts of the Apostles, it is obvious that there was doctrinal disagreement then as well. Such will continue to be the case. We all have our views on what the scriptures say about women in church leadership/traching/deaconing/pastoring, etc., just as we have varying views on election, end times, and so on.

I personally think people like Paige Patterson, Albert Mohler, and other arch-fundamentalists have mistreated women but that's based on their view of scripture. They and their supporters wouldn't call it mistreatment--they'd use another holy-sounding phrase like following he word of God.

We don't follow everything that's in the Bible today. I'll bet all of us eat pork or at least don't avoid it based on the OT law. No need to list other examples. The point, as one seminary professor said, is simply that some things we have in scripture were for those current times and not necessarily intended for us today. Today women have formal education. In the first century C.E. they did not. The cultural role of women was totally different that in American society.

Can God call a woman to preach and teach a man? Of course. Does he? I suspect that today He might. We can all find a long list of men who wanted to be preachers and believed that God was calling them into the ministry but who, after being ordained and pastoring, made it obvious by their actions that they were out of the will of God. It really doesn't take much these days to become ordained depending on what office, agency, denomination, or website one wants to ordain him or her.

I do appreciate the varied comments from each of you.
...
written by pjerwin, August 12, 2009
Arce wrote:
We don't follow everything that's in the Bible today. I'll bet all of us eat pork or at least don't avoid it based on the OT law.
I would think that an attorney would be more precise. We don’t follow some things in the Bible, like the pork-eating deal based on… what’s in the New Testament. Yes, that’s right. Special, specific revelation to Peter through a God-given vision as well as the consensus of the Council of Apostles in Jerusalem in the very book -- The Acts of the Apostles -- you cited at the beginning of your comment.

As far as the “doctrinal disagreement” you find in Acts, where exactly is it?

You’re also unwittingly engaging in a logical fallacy. Part of your argument for affirming the ordination of women to pastoral headship is based on the failure of some men who mistakenly thought – along with their congregations and ordination councils – that they called of God. That’s not a sound argument. We have a Pastor in our community, a “hometown boy,” who SO talented (passionate, charismatic public speaker, a dynamic teacher, and a wonderful professional administrator) and so is his present wife, yet a major part of his testimony is that the Lord told him to divorce his first wife, marry the woman with whom he was having an affair, and go into ministry together (they were both business professionals at the time on an Emmaus Walk retreat together). They remain unrepentant about their “affair” (adultery). If you were on a Pulpit Committee interviewing this couple, would their testimony commend them to you? Because he fails to meet the criteria for the ordination he holds, does that have anything to do with whether or not women should be ordained? Of course not.

The bottom line is this: For at least two specific reasons, churches will continue to wrongly ordain both men and women: 1) failure to uphold God’s standards, and 2) failure to operate according to God’s economy. God’s standard requires that we look to a person’s heart, his internal character, rather than external qualities such as charisma, physical appearance, intellect, and administrative competency. God’s economy requires that we don’t ask, “Is this person professionally capable of doing this ministry?” but rather, “Should this person use his or her professional proficiency in this particular ministry?” It isn’t a matter of “can they?” it’s a matter of “should they?” Many women can do what Pastors do, but according to God’s standard, should they? Regardless of your answer, the greater question is, “How should we treat women who have been ordained to Pastoral ministry?” I say we should treat them with respect.
another imaginary masculine pronoun
written by Thy Peace, August 14, 2009
Sunzanne's Booksehlf [Suzanne McCarthy] > another imaginary masculine pronoun
http://powerscourt.blogspot.com/2009/08/another-imaginary-masculine-pronoun.html

I honestly believe that those who have taught the importance of the masculine pronoun in the Bible have done a serious disservice to truth. Many of the masculine pronouns in the English Bible have no antecedent in the Greek, and yet, they are assumed to be communicating some part of God's truth.

I read this comment, posted on a blog article about Wade Burleson's recent sermon on women in ministry,

Also, qualifications for elders/pastors says he must be "one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence." 1 Timothy 3:4 (notice the word "his" . . . a man)

How can one argue with this? There is no "his" in the Greek. There is no word at all that underlies "his" - nada, nothing, blank space. If you tell one person this, the next person still doesn't know. The masculine pronoun has become the biggest urban legend in the Christian community for this decade, maybe this century.

τοῦ ἰδίου οἴκου καλῶς προϊστάμενον, τέκνα ἔχοντα ἐν ὑποταγῇ μετὰ πάσης σεμνότητος:

Here we see the heresy of the masculine pronoun at work.

...
written by Lydia, August 14, 2009
So, if the Hebrews 13:17 translation is correct, then we should obey everything a church leader tell us to do, right? Everything. No matter what. Sounds like an earthly priest to me. Must be the translation is off because it negates too many other scriptures about not lording it over, the first will be last, all the one anothers and of course, we are all priests in the Holy Priesthood.

I do have a question. Why is it the NT is more strict and legalistic about women teaching men than the OT? That seems strange.
...
written by tj282828, August 20, 2009
Lydia,

One is always to obey God rather than men. If a pastor says to sin, one must obey God.

As far as the Greek talk goes. . . there is such a thing as antecedent nouns, and they make the "his" justified.

Readers alone are responsible for the content of the comments they post here. The comments are subject to the site’s terms and conditions of use and do not necessarily reflect the opinion or approval of the ABP News. Readers whose comments violate the terms of use may have their comments removed or all of their content blocked from viewing by other users without notification.
Write comment
You must be logged in to leave a comment. Login | Register
busy
 
< Prev   Next >
Copyright © 2007-2010 Associated Baptist Press, All Rights Reserved.