Associated Baptist Press - Opinion: On gay rights, is there common ground?

Opinion: On gay rights, is there common ground?

By Cody Sanders

Wednesday, December 02, 2009

(ABP) -- In October, President Obama signed the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act into law. It extends existing federal hate-crimes laws (which already include protections for racial and religious bias) to include protections for crimes that are motivated by bias against the victim’s sexual orientation or gender identity. In addition to a brief stint in the national spotlight, this news has been a focal point of attention for many churches and Christian organizations as well.

Many “open and affirming” churches, supportive of the rights and inclusion of lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) people in the life of the congregation, have supported this law vocally.

More conservative churches, meanwhile, have feared that greater protections for LGBT people under the law would encroach upon the freedom of churches to speak against homosexuality as a sin. It seems that these diverse groups of churches could not be further separated from one another in their views regarding sexuality.

But even though they now have greater legal protections, the fact remains that LGBT people will still be attacked, maimed and killed in bias-motivated crimes. Laws, even strong and well-worded ones, do not stop violence from occurring. Just last month, at least two more gay teens were killed in bias-motivated crimes in Puerto Rico and Baltimore. Prompted by this grisly reality, perhaps some churches may be able to find a bit of common ground amid ongoing sexuality debates.

This common ground might stem from a basic recognition that LGBT people are created in the image of God coupled with the faith commitment that God desires life and health, not violence and destruction, for all of God’s children. This commitment to life and health for all may serve to bring both affirming and non-affirming churches together for the purpose of ending senseless violence against LGBT people. It wouldn’t necessarily mean that these diverse churches change their theological perspectives on sexuality -- that is up for ongoing debate. It would, instead, mean coming together around an issue about which diverse churches may be able to agree: namely, that violence against any human being is wrong and should be stopped, and that stopping it is important to the church.

Beyond mere theological words, however, this common ground might take a more creative and constructive shape. It would take brave and creative pastors and laypeople to bring about such an alliance of diverse churches. It would mean temporarily setting aside theological differences on issues of sexuality in order to achieve unity in a theological commitment to end violence. It may mean partnering with other organizations within local communities to think critically and creatively about what it would take to educate others in the quest to end anti-LGBT violence. It’s a small, but meaningful, common-ground effort.

The witness of churches with divergent positions on sexuality coming together for this purpose may also have a profound effect upon the wider society. For affirming churches, seriousness about eradicating violence against LGBT people would be a move to put one’s money where one’s mouth is. Moving beyond a welcoming stance that invites LGBT people to come in, it would be a sign of a church’s willingness to go out into the world to stand in solidarity with their LGBT neighbors. For non-affirming churches, it would be a sign to a skeptical world that they really did care about lesbian and gay people. For all of the bad press non-affirming churches receive on the issue, seriously speaking out and acting to end violence against LGBT people sends a positive message. It says, “Notwithstanding our theological and ethical beliefs regarding a person’s sexuality, we care about gay and lesbian people because they are fellow children of God.”

The act of affirming and non-affirming, liberal and conservative, big and small, urban and rural churches standing together for the life-giving ministry of opposing anti-LGBT violence sends another message, too. It is a message to the on-looking world around us that, despite a history filled with disagreement and division, our churches can find common ground upon which to make the world -- God’s world -- a more livable place for all people.

The question is, will churches be able to summon the humility and bravery necessary to work with sister churches across theological lines of division for a purpose that is larger than theological difference? For all of the LGBT lives touched by violence, let’s hope the answer is, “yes.”

-30-

Cody J. Sanders, a graduate of Mercer University’s McAfee School of Theology, is now a doctoral student in pastoral theology and counseling at Brite Divinity School at Texas Christian University in Fort Worth.

Related ABP story:

Obama signs bill extending hate-crimes protections (10/28)

EDITORIAL DISCLAIMER: As part of our mission to provide credible and compelling information about matters of faith, Associated Baptist Press actively seeks a diversity of viewpoints in its columns, commentaries and other opinion-based content. Opinions expressed in these articles are not intended to represent ABP editorial policy and do not necessarily reflect the views of ABP’s staff, board of directors or supporters.

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wow
written by Bobby McCord, December 02, 2009

Wow!!! I am amazed at the articles on a web site that claims to be Baptist. Their is no comman ground between sin and righteousness,lost and saved, right and wrong. A saved life is a changed life. You are not God's child until you receive Christ as Savior (John 1:12) When you do receive Him you will be a new creature. There is no way you can point to God's Word and say we should accept a lifestyle that God's Word calls an abomination, as Christian behavior. All the hate crime legislation does is give reprobates legitamacy. Homosexuality is not only a sin, it is an abomination, and it is a symptom of a reprobate society. (Romans 1) We should not abuse, hate, or wish harm to these people but we should not act like they have a right to spread their filth on our culture through the T.V., schools, literature, and movies, and now even the church. Anyone who comitts a crime like murder is always driven by hate. We don't even enforce the laws and sentences required on those who break the laws now, and now we say the sentence should be more severe because of what someone was saying or even thinking when they comitted the crime. Soon the saying and thinking will be the crime and that is the goal, to silence true Bible believing and Bible preaching men of God.

NO COMMON GROUND
written by Mark Osgatharp, December 02, 2009

There is no common ground between the heresy of modernism and the believing churches of Jesus Christ. They cannot work together for any cause, good or bad.

The true churches of Jesus Christ express their love for sinners of every variety by calling on them to repent and be converted and embracing them as fellow members of the church when they do so repent. The modernist churches of Satan express their disregard for Jesus Christ and His word by condoning that which is evil.

All such calls for cooperation between the lovers of truth and the minions of Satan are just a way for Satan to make himself look compassionate and harmless and to infect the churches of the living God with heresy.

Furthermore, to even speak of "LGBT people" is an absolute absurdity. If you want to so capitulate to those who have embraced perversion, why not go ahead and add molesters, rapists, adulterers, murderers, thieves, drunkards, liars, idolaters, gossips and wife beaters to your ridiculous acronym.

One good thing about articles like this which keep spewing out of the Baptist left - they clearly demonstrate the true character of the so called "moderate" Baptists and confirm that the Southern Baptist theological purges of the 1980s and 90s were in the highest degree called for.

Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas

Amen, Mark
written by Bobby McCord, December 03, 2009

I appreciate your comments and your Spirit. It is good to hear from someone who still believes that there is a difference between a saved person and a lost person. The gospel of easy believism has so infected the churches across this country that I am afraid the church is becoming ineffective. I long for the day when Christ truly makes a difference in our churches again, and I long for the day when the church truly makes a difference in this Nation. Again, Mark, keep up the good work and God Bless you Brother. This e-mail address is being protected from spam bots, you need JavaScript enabled to view it

...
written by banshiii, December 03, 2009

Thanks for this Cody. As for the comments here, that's just sad. I get your points, I see your points. However, I doubt that's the position Christ would take.

His Word
written by Bobby McCord, December 03, 2009

The forgiveness of Christ is only available through repentance. It is not His will that any perish BUT that all should come to repentance. Conversion means change. If there is no change in the life of a person there has been no conversion. All sin but Christians do not live lifestyles of sin. You are not doing anyone any favors by condoning their sinful lifestyle because without Christ they have no hope and without repentance they don't have Christ. What is really sad is how Satan has deceived good people like you into believing a lie, banshee.

...
written by robber, December 03, 2009

We are all sinners. We all have weakness. There isn't a church in the world that isn't full of sinners. I do terrible things, I know it's wrong, I struggle every day with my sins.

That being said, there is a clear difference between welcoming anyone to the church and ministering to them; and accepting and even rallying to support their sin. That's just stupid. Hey, the heroin addicts are having a rally next week, I think I'll join them to show my support. Huh? The wife beaters are meeting tomorrow, maybe I should attend and show them I stand with them. Really?

Does God love all sinners? Of course he does. Should we love them? Of course. Does God accept our sins? Does he rally for our right to sin? Nope, don't think so. That would be Satan.

Thank you
written by stloup, December 03, 2009

The Bible does say to choose friendships with unbelievers carefully (Proverbs 12:26), so as to not be led estray, but the Bible also repeatedly states that we are to be in the world and not of it, so that we may let the light of God be reflected in our relationships with unbelievers (John 17:14-15; Matthew 5:16).

Psalm 102:14 says that in Zion, we will love each stone that is in the city, and that we should be sad to see them lying in the dirt. Let us not forget that in the kingdom of heaven, "Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness sake" (Matthew 5:10). Why would this not apply to homosexuals and even those who are engaged in sexual immorality? This could very well be an opportunity to reflect the grace of God to these unbelievers, and lead them to repentance.

Treat people as people!
written by beth_dunc, December 03, 2009

It seems to me that the article, and that the hate crimes law, is basically saying to treat people as people. Is homosexual behavior a sin? Certainly. Do we condone violence to people on the basis of their sin? Of course not! Yet, the violence against LGBT's happens, just because of their sin. And that is why the hate crime law. Matthew Sheppard was dragged behind a truck just because he was gay, remember? And also, think. If saved people still are tempted and still sin, are there not true, bible-believing, saved Christians who still have homosexual thoughts and desires, and in moments of weakness might actually - gasp - act on them.

And the Bible says we are all created in God's image, not just the saved people. Check out Genesis. And treat people as people.

Where does one begin?
written by Mark Osgatharp, December 03, 2009

When there is so much confusion on every hand, where does one begin to set the record straight?

On the one hand, we have people saying that if you sin too awful much you are not really saved. On the other hand, you have people saying that since we all sin the church should just throw the door open wide and embrace anyone and everyone, regardless of their moral character (though I'm sure no one would really want to put that into practice).

First of all, let's make it clear that a regenerate man is capable of committing any sin of which a lost man is capable, sodomy not excluded. The issue is not whether or not saved people can commit sin. The issue is how should the church deal with sin.

Paul makes it very clear in the Corinthians letters. First, he wrote the church at Corinth and instructed it to excommunicate a man who was engaged in an immoral relationship with his stepmother. Then, he wrote these words in his second letter which tells exactly what our attitude should be toward church members who engage in lascivious behavior and don't repent:

"Again, think ye that we excuse ourselves unto you? we speak before God in Christ: but we do all things, dearly beloved, for your edifying. For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults: and lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed."

Those who are impenitent about their immorality should be BEWAILED - not celebrated nor winked at - they should be BEWAILED.

Remember, all of Paul's words were addressed to believing Baptist Christians - not the unbelieving modernists parading under the Baptist banner today. So far as those two groups there can be no cooperation in anything because they are two totally different creatures. Whether or not the modernist embraces the sodomite is really a moot point, because the heresy of modernism is, itself, as evil as sexual perversion.

Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas

...
written by KT2005, December 03, 2009

Gay Rights? Should homosexuals be given special rights? I don't even think white or black people should be given their own set of special rights. One human has as much rights as another.

Hate crimes are thought crimes. Moderate Christians are unfortunately very naive. To the homosexuals believing their behavior is sin is hate. Such laws will be used to say the church supports the hate, and then when someone murders gays Christianity will be to blame. Unless something changes persecution is coming. . . and most don't even see it.

Civility or Endorsement?
written by tenor1, December 04, 2009

No matter what your view or your interpretation of the Bible's statements on matters of sexuality, a civil society should practice civility; Christians should practice God's mandate to love. Some professions, jobs, chosen lifestyles are more/less attractive to homosexuals. These include flight attendants, musicians, medical professionals and the list goes on. I changed a lot of airplanes during my working career, associated with a lot of musicians, and have been poked and prodded by a lot of medical professionals. I never struck a one of them. You don't have to embrace an ideology or lifestyle to be civil, and Jesus did not say "Love your white, black, anglo, protestant, normal, straight, average neighbor as yourself."

...
written by KT2005, December 04, 2009

No Christian supports vigilantly crime upon homosexuals. Punish murder with the death penalty. . . every single murder. But thought crime??? This is America. To say certain thoughts are deserving of extra punishment is scary! After all, what does a hate crime bill do. Special punishment is giving to a criminal not for his crimes but because of his thoughts. If certain crimes involving certain thoughts deserve special punishment, why shouldn't thoughts alone be prosecuted? To be logically consistent the thoughts should be punished. Please think!

Re: Civility or Endorsement
written by beth_dunc, December 04, 2009

Tenor1, you make sense. Where I work makes it known that they value diversity, so not surprisingly, we have a lot of "out" homosexuals working there (and even a few transgendered.) I do not ever condone their lifestyle, or say that I think their lifestyle is good, but I always work with them like I work with any "straight" person. And I have always had good working relationships with them. I have also been able to talk about my marriage, church, and God openly there too. We aren't as different as some people seem to want to think.

...
written by kash, December 05, 2009

"There is no way you can point to God's Word and say we should accept a lifestyle that God's Word calls an abomination, as Christian behavior."
What else is called an abomination? Men wearing women's clothing (sorry, Scotsmen) or women wearing men's clothing (all of us women that wear pants). Fortune telling (better not read the astrology page in the newspaper!). Loads of animals: the eagle, the vulture, the osprey, ravens, owls, swans, pelicans, hawks, storks, herons, bats. Also "creeping things" like snakes. Water animals that have no scales or fins (shellfish, for example). Sacrificing an animal to God that is blemished in any way, also eating the flesh of an animal that has been sacrificed to God (it should be burned completely). Taking on the customs of other religions (oops, all you people with Christmas trees up right now!) Making an idol, or taking silver or gold from the idol of another religion - worn a crucifix lately? Got a cross hanging from your rear view mirror? Slippery slope! Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood, a heart that devises wicked plans, feet that hurry to run to evil, a lying witness who testifies falsely, and one who sows discord in a family. Diverse weights and diverse measures, also referred to as differing weights, false scales, perfect and just measures. Some would argue that this includes fiat money. I wouldn't, but some do. Adultery.

So, if we are going to single out the sins that are an "abomination" and make them some sort of super duper sin that qualifies a person to be ostracized from the church until they "change" and completely free themselves of that sin, our churches are going to get a whole lot smaller.

KT 2005
written by kash, December 05, 2009

"Punish murder with the death penalty. . . every single murder." Let me guess: you consider yourself pro-life.
"To say certain thoughts are deserving of extra punishment is scary! After all, what does a hate crime bill do." That is not what the bill says at all. I read it. It simply makes federal resources available to local law enforcement if a crime categorized as a hate crime. That means more and better methods of investigating and procesuting. It has nothing to do with punishing people for their thoughts. That is a right wing dishonest characterization of Hate Crimes legislation, and remember, false testimony is an abomination just like homosexuality in the Bible.

What is the crime?
written by Bobby McCord, December 08, 2009

Are we saying the act of violence is the crime or are we saying that the thoughts or the words spoken in the commission of the violent act are the crime or are we saying both are crimes and when comitted together it makes it worse? Murder is already a crime, assault is already a crime. Anyone who comits assault or murder has hate in their heart and mind. Hate crime legislation is an assault on free speech of Bible believing Christians and it is an attack on anyone who doesn't think the way the politically correct Government and culture thinks. I don't want to see anyone abused even homosexuals but I sure don't want homosexuals elevated to the place of legitimate minority status because when that happens churches who hold to biblical standards in hiring and in membership will be attacked with lawsuits that will result in their closure. I believe this is the goal of this legislation.

KEEP IT COMING KASH
written by Mark Osgatharp, December 08, 2009

KASH: "So, if we are going to single out the sins that are an "abomination" and make them some sort of super duper sin that qualifies a person to be ostracized from the church until they 'change' and completely free themselves of that sin, our churches are going to get a whole lot smaller."

PAUL TO THE CORINTHIANS: "But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolator, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat. For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."

Keep it coming, KASH, you are proving the case that the Baptist left does not, in fact, believe in the Scriptures at all and are monumentally ignorant of authentic Bible doctrine.

Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas

Amen, McCord
written by Mark Osgatharp, December 08, 2009

Bobby,

You are 100% correct about the goal of the perverts and their abettors. They won't be satisfied nor stop until they have forced the whole nation into subjection or silence.

Mark Osgatharp
Wynne, Arkansas

WHY?!?!?!?!?
written by bertra, December 10, 2009

Why must virtually every article that includes "gay" as a topic degenerate into the inevitable, knee-jerk arguments over whether or not the Church should sanction homosexuality? As I read the article, the author appears only to be suggesting that we show concern at the human level about violence - against anyone. His specific context is the gay community because of the updated Hate Crimes Prevention Act, but several responders here seem to ignore the RIGHTS of gay folk not to be attacked; instead, they begin attacking them here in this forum. Am I hoping for too much that we might learn to "love the sinner" with more than words? The discussion in this article is about VIOLENCE. Can we talk about THAT?

Why?
written by Bobby McCord, December 10, 2009

Why must every article in this opinion section represent the opinions of the liberals? Why is the church in such a state that homosexuality would even be debated as wrong or right, as accepted or rejected. Romans 1 makes it clear that homosexuality is more than just an overt sin, it is a sin filled lifestyle that is a symptom of a reprobate culture. it is a lifestyle that is lived by those who know the truth but take pleasure in unrighteousness. It is a lifestyle that is lived by those who God has given up or given over to their own ungodliness. READ the BOOK Romans 1. I also dont believe those who live lifestyles of adultery, drunkedness, theivery, idolatry, or an extortioner are Christians. These are all descriptions of lifestyles lives by the lost. Believe it or not, the Bible does teach that there is a difference between those who have been saved and those who have not and that difference will be seen in their life.

violence?
written by Bobby McCord, December 10, 2009

It is a proven fact that almost 100% of abducted, molested, raped, and murdered children are victimized by a homosexual pervert. The lifestyle of most homosexuals is a violent, drug filled, disease spreading lifestyle. They are not a race of people who are being victimized because of their color, background, or religion. If a homosexual is murdered, the murderer should face the full extent of the law just like any other murderer. But, sodomy is a crime even if liberal judges have ruled it isn't. If my child or grandchild was attacked by one of these perverts I would take it personally. Where are all the articles about punishment for those who attack Christians here and all over the world? Where are the bleeding heart opinion articles for punishing perverts who attack children?It is time that this nation became a nation of morals again. It is time that the church became a body of people who believe the Bible again.

...
written by KT2005, December 10, 2009

Yes I am pro-life. Innocent deserve to live while those guilty of bloodshed deserve to die. The Bible supports capital punishment after all. But what is that to you?
As far as your second paragraph, you are doing the all too common liberal dance. Whenever a liberal cannot win an argument they call names: like liar and hater. How many devout Christians have physically harmed gays? I have been in churches all over the U.S. and I have never seen a church advocate hating homosexuals (save that one nut who has only his own family attending his church. . . the protest funeral fellow). The whole picture of the church hating certain sinners is propaganda put out by the gay rights movement. How effective they have been! Too bad you have been won over by their words.

You have said I am lying. Read this article. If you have read the bill then it is you who is the liar. Will I get an apology. . . I doubt it. lol

First is the bill. Read section 249a1. It talks about extra prison time for offenders, not grants. If you had really read the bill you would know this.

Sorry guys, I cannot link an article without being blocked. Google it and you will see. Administration does not allow links.

Amen, KT
written by Bobby McCord, December 10, 2009

Again, you are right on the mark. Thought, intent, feelings, will become subject to liberal judges soon. Truth, Right, Wrong, Good, and Bad are all subjective in the eyes of the liberal unless you are talking about a conservative Bible believing church or preacher. We must be tolerant to everyone except conservative Christians with biblical values.

To KT2005
written by kash, December 15, 2009

"It talks about extra prison time for offenders, not grants." Offenders meaning people who committed a hate crime. Not people who thought hateful or spoke hateful things. And yes, the bill is ALL about providing federal resources to assist in investigating and prosecuting crimes classified as "hate crimes." It is a deliberate mischaracterization to claim the bill in anyway criminalizes free speech or free thought. The KKK doesn't get arrested for marching, but members of the KKK get the book thrown at them when they torture and murder African Americans. Now the same will be true of those who torture, assault, and murder homosexuals, and that is a GOOD thing for this country.

...
written by kash, December 15, 2009

"We must be tolerant to everyone except conservative Christians with biblical values." Talk about laughing out loud. McCord, who defines Biblical values as those of the Pharisees rather than those of Jesus Christ, who seems to be entirely about putting new wine into old wineskins and sewing old patches onto new garments. If it were up to McCord, not only would homosexuals be stoned (including those suspected of being homosexuals, you know, men who cry in public and women who like football) but disobedient children would be stoned and daughters would be sold into sexual slavery (because remember, this is the same guy who defends slavery as being acceptable in God's sight since the Bible never specifically condemns it). Of course, since the word homosexual didn't actually exist until the 19th century, this means Bible never specifically condemns homosexuality either, but that would be too nuanced for Mr. McCord, who likes his morality black and white because that way he is justified in condemning the largest number of people.

To Kash
written by Bobby McCord, December 16, 2009

I never said slavery was right. The Bible never says slavery is right. The bible does not say homosexual, it calls them reprobates, and abominations. I am not defending any sinful lifestyle but it seems you are defending yours. The Bible literally says, A man pretending to be a woman, or woman pretending to be a man, in the way they dress. There is a difference. Anyone who can't see that homosexuality is a perversion is in sad shape. There is a huge diffence in a woman wearing slacks and a man dressing in drag so let's stop grabbing at straws. If you believe that homosexuality is not a sin just say so. If you don't believe the bible is authoritative just say so and stop pretending that evryone who doesn't agree with you is a self righteous pharisee.

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